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Citizen Cosmos
And while we are waiting to do some general chitchat, A So people who do join Dont think that it's empty. So just for everyone joining, regardless whether you're listening to the recording of this or you are listening to this as you join us and this is Citizen Cosmos Twitter Spaces. Today we're going to be talking with Galactica and it's a Z K related project, and it's much more than that, to be honest.

Citizen Cosmos
There's a lot of a lot a lot of look to it, and we are going to find out everything about them and what they do. Hopefully soon. In a couple of minutes, we'll start. We have some uncomfortable questions prepared as well. So guys, prepare yourself. I mean, talking about the speaker is, of course, nothing unusual. Just some questions.

Citizen Cosmos
I'm sure that none of them are out of the ordinary, but that some people might consider them to be uncomfortable. But that's good. And the more we can find out, the better. So let's wait maybe one more minute, and then slowly we start maybe two or three more minutes. Anybody, by the way, guys, the Galactica team and all, I think all three of you, all previous speakers now.

Citizen Cosmos
So I'm going to be directing most of my questions at Sarvodoya, of course, but this not necessarily like that. So feel free to jump in and answer the questions. And they are mostly about the projects and things that the project. So yeah, whoever feels like the one to answer the question and when it's going to be there, of course, feel free to jump in and answer.

Citizen Cosmos
So let's wait a couple of minutes, guys.

Dan
Just your aware I think Sarv is actually pretty busy right now. So I think I might answer the questions myself and then if we need some input from Sarv, just jump on it, if that's okay.

Sarvodaya
Sure. Thanks. A bit more sense. I'm going to be, I guess, getting a bit more. I'm going to be shedding a bit more light upon some strategic slash, maybe ideological, if you want to put it this way. Sure. So, yeah, and basically a start will be giving all the tech related answers.

Citizen Cosmos
Okay. A lot of reflector. No, no. For for me. For me it doesn't matter guys whichever one it I mean the whole point of Twitter space is this for all of you guys to jump in. So it's even cool. I think that this is going to be just one person, but rather a star for one galactic day for the other.

Citizen Cosmos
And so for something else. And also, by the way, again, of course, if you listen to the recording of this, this is not directed at you, but if you are joining us now or at any point, I will repeat this, of course, as people join and feel free to jump in, raise hands and ask questions and don't be shy.

Citizen Cosmos
The microphone doesn't bite If you're feeling too shy, if you want to ask a question but you don't want to talk, I guess you could quickly. Well, not quickly, but while we are talking, drop it either to the Citizen Cosmos. Well, the best way to do it is to drop it to our DMS. They are open on Twitter and hopefully I will see it and or one of my teammates will see it and pass it to me.

Citizen Cosmos
And then I can ask, but please don't be shy. If you have access to the microphone, if you can speak and draw out the course of the conversation, not necessarily at the end you feel like you want to give the guy something. Please raise your hand and I will allow you to speak. So two more minutes, I think, and let's keep an e0k.

Citizen Cosmos
So just a while before, I mean, of course the guys from Galactica will do a much better introduction and then I can and of course I will ask and hopefully it's okay, but I'm judging again, so I'm doing some chit chat just the way some time guys. And though I do want to say kudos for the website because the website contains sometimes it's very annoying.

Citizen Cosmos
In Web three, you go on a website and you have, well, sometimes very little, sometimes no information about what the project is. So kudos for this Galactica, guys. This is really, really, I think, informative, informative. And there is a lot of information you can find here, whether this is research information, the identity information which is available there, all the papers, all the socials, all the links to the code as well.

Citizen Cosmos
And well, the code, we will actually have some questions about that too. But yeah, there is a lot of informative links here. So guys, if you want to find more about Galactica and not just by listening to this piece, go to their website and there is a lot a lot of information available there, which is cool.

Sarvodaya
And yes, please, like a small little announcement which we're going to be dropping I guess exclusively here. Site exactly relates to a website and media one new website which has to do with somebody called campaign. And I'm going to let's close to the end of it I guess so stick around.

Citizen Cosmos
Nice guys please stick around and I'm going to talk less from this point on words ask more questions because my voice, I guess already I'm going too much, so I'm going to start, guys. So whoever is here is already here again. Whoever is listening to the recording. Hi. Through to guys. And yeah, let's kick in. So we have Galactica today with us.

Citizen Cosmos
This is Galactica network. I'm did say that the project is related to Z K, It's a one protocol. Apart from date. I would say seven Z KYC related right advertises itself as though there is a lot about governance, a lot about citizens. And here I'm going to direct it to you guys. Does any of you want to introduce?

Citizen Cosmos
Normally? Not the way I do, of course. Sorry for the lame in Galactica. And what do you guys do and what are you trying to achieve?

Dan
Absolutely, ma'am. And thank you. Thank you for the props on the website, too. It's a it's a very complicated protocol to to try and explain in a simple manner to people we're trying to achieve an awful lot. So in essence, Galactica network is L one EVM compatible chain. So you can do just about everything you can do that you can do on a like a normal chain.

Dan
It's based on the Cosmos SDK. So big props to to the Cosmos, the Cosmos team, to the Cosmos, trying to get into this community and be a real good part of it. And basically we utilize a really synergistic zero knowledge base tech stack to try and introduce enough cibil resistance and social substrate for verifiable humans to actually transact for your reputation, as a mouthful.

Dan
But essentially we want you to be able to make transactions based rather than your rather not like your tokens. We want you to be able to make your transactions based on your reputation. So like social transactions, you know, that's that's, that's like the essence of the technical part. But the kind of the the fundamentals that all this actually enables is the prospect of decentralized society on chain.

Dan
So this is what we call our cipher state. So you can essentially, for the first time become a citizen to a protocol, which is really exciting. And we've got an awful lot to say on that. So yeah, that's, that's kind of like the the five that the one min elevator pitch if you if you want to go to that.

Citizen Cosmos
Let's let's let's stick with this a little bit before we go further let's let's let's Alex speaking with the one minute elevator pitches, as you call it. I think they reveal a lot, to be honest, because you can dig into them. And from here we can untangle the black hole, so to speak. And by black hole, I'm referring to the complexity of the project, not to bad things right.

Citizen Cosmos
So you mentioned well, let's start with the beginning. The first time what you describe it sounds a little bit similar to Edena. Now, I don't know if any of the listeners are familiar with Edena. At some point it was identified also the Cosmos project, but not so sure if it's correct to identify the such. Do you are you guys familiar with the data?

Citizen Cosmos
Is if anything, similar at all to what you do?

Dan
I'm afraid I'm not personally aware of that Project Sarvodaya, Astar maybe.

Sarvodaya
Googling it at the moment.

Citizen Cosmos
No, guys, it's not. It's not. This is not this was not a necessity. But basically they have been trying to solve the whole thing with identities and with real human behind the real identity by introducing different puzzles and stuff like that and by making notes. So, yeah, I remember.

Sarvodaya
I remember I mean, like, I don't recall it by the name, but I do remember the puzzle the code captures and verifying you as being the real human. I remember that. Yes. So, look, I mean, I guess it's this kind of similar to an extent. So basically, I guess the the best way to put it, let me try to also give my elevator pitch just a quick one.

Sarvodaya
So the initial idea of Galactica came from two different perspectives. One of them is enabling these .... So basically enabling social enabling social primitives through the stone chain, being able to introduce the concept of real world reputation into the web3 space since it's kind of needed and i will explain the motivation later. But also how about it enables a lot of use cases that haven't been possible in Web3 before?

Sarvodaya
The same way like Etherium introduced the ability to build financial primitives what is today commonly known as Defi Galactic or tries to bring in the social primitives what is commonly referred to as the DSOC. So that's basically one pillar of what we're trying to achieve. The second one is the general understanding that regulation from traditional regulators, nation states, it's getting closer and closer to us, us as the Web3 community is going to come and we're going to be ready for that.

Sarvodaya
So that's one idea. The second idea is that probably it's also needed because we all know in the minds of the vast majority of people, Web3 is still perceived as some kind of Wild West kind of casino. Instead of their liberating financial stack that it was meant to be. I guess. So basically the second very important motivation for building Galactica was to create tech stack such that it will be more regulated than fully permissionless defi and rapidly and much less regulated than the much more permissionless cbdcs.

Sarvodaya
So something striking this middle ground. So how those two things tied together. So we have introduced ZKKYC as a concept. Basically it is very simple. You can do off chain KYC would be I mean Astar will look better than I. But overall, the idea of the KYC process happens off chain and you can prove stuff about your documents on chain.

Sarvodaya
It is not limited to only KYC, pretty much any of the world documents for that matter. Just KYC is a very acute example. So then when you have the small primitive. The second one is that you can build applications that kind of which require you to prove certain things about your identity. For example, we can see that let's say a GMX fork working on Galactica would require you to be over 18 years old.

Sarvodaya
Why not? I mean, like, it kind of makes sense. Otherwise you steal your mom's money and yeah, investing in high level instruments. So the other important thing is that of course, all kinds of all kinds of national what basically nationality, you can do different stuff about this and so citizens from particular jurisdictions can access your dapp, some other citizens cannot.

Sarvodaya
And that's wonderful because, I mean, it solves a lot of problems that we all have in the web3 space. If you have a deal to web3 protocols, you know how much of a pain in the ass it is to well walk around this part, which is just to let them in, which not. So this is the ZKKYC component now, because you have this ZKKYC, it's kind of expensive to create many accounts.

Sarvodaya
In other words, you know, in fully permissionless networks, you can create a million accounts are pretty much only there. Well, Sky is the limits of how many different identities you can create, it's kind of more expensive to do so simply because you have to, well, presumably find different sets of documents if you want to create many accounts for yourself.

Sarvodaya
So in that way we are bootstrapping cibil resistance. So it's not that you need to have KYC, but just many applications will require you so it kinda make sense. So and now it's a bit more expensive to create new accounts, as I have mentioned. And because of this, people will start to tend to use one and the same private key for many different interactions.

Sarvodaya
And because of these, basically you start your account, your private key starts aggregating this web3 you footprint, basically the history of interactions with other accounts, history of the interactions of interactions with other apps, etc., etc.. And from this, basically what you get is a concept of reputation. So the more you interact with other accounts, the more you interact with the defi apps, the more you interact with any others, the more and more and more, the more and what you see that is about what you have been doing on the network.

Sarvodaya
And because of this, if let's say you have been a I will give you just a good example, which is going to clarify a lot. Let's say you have been with on the network for five years. Let's say that you have paid back a cumulative $1 million worth of loans that you have taken on some Defi lending applications.

Sarvodaya
Then if you come to me, I could probably give you a loan with a 0% collateral simply because I know that you don't want to spoil your beautiful history and your account that has existed there for a year, just not to give back to me. And $1,000. Let's say, While on the other hand, if there is a new account which has never been interacting with the protocol before, then of course I'm going to give you one or two collateralized loan of 150%, depending on the volatility of collateral as your money.

Sarvodaya
So that's the that's the idea of a very basic undercapitalized lending example which reputational onchain enables. And what you can not have in the fully permissionless pseudonymous networks. So I hope this makes sense to offer. Please feel free to interrupt me any moment if any of this needs clarification. And so in this way, kind of peculiarly, the concept of ZKKYC and regulatory compliance ties into cibil resistance.

Sarvodaya
And from cibil resistance it goes to our two dsoc and basically enabling reputation based interaction subject. So I hope this makes sense.

Citizen Cosmos
Perfect. I'm just waiting to two for you to finish that. I want to interrupt. Sorry.

Sarvodaya
That was a bit longer than one minute elevator pitch, but I hope this like no, no, it's good.

Citizen Cosmos
It's perfect.

Sarvodaya
It's perfect. So now let me give you just a couple of extensions, just a quick one. So basically, ZKKYC, as I said, ZKKYC is just a particular use case. You can also have ZK certificates and in general, it's called ZK certs. So these are the this is the actual technological thing that galactica uses so you can bring in your real estate certificates for you and you can bring in your clearly KYC documents.

Sarvodaya
And most importantly, you can also bring in the educational, for example, educational docs on chain. So, for example, I can ask you to prove to me that you have a Cs degree from either of the three Ivy League universities without me knowing your name nor your actual university from which you have recently received it, etc.. So basically I can know something about your attestations without you revealing to me anything about them.

Sarvodaya
So apart from their presence or absence in this way, if I have a representation of a human characterized with his or her reputation as well as I have real world ateststations about the human, I can change your voting power or I can condition your voting power in Doa's, you know, on us on this thing. So the more you have been with the protocols, the bigger your voting power as an example.

Sarvodaya
If you have a CS degree, well, clearly your vote needs to count a bit more when writing new consensus protocol changes to an existing consensus protocol. So basically in this way you can bring governance frameworks, frameworks from the old world on chain and make them much more sophisticated than one token to one vote.

Sarvodaya
And the primitives that we have today, and this is the premise of the cipher state. So basically a cipher state is when you can bring political primitives as sophisticated as those we have in real world. And there is a lot of wisdom behind their design. I guess nobody is going to argue that and bring those primitives on chain, basically building a representation of a nation state on chain, not just a financial institution like we currently can do in Defi, but we can actually bring a full political system, basically of a nation state on chain, and that we basically get the question as to what do we really need nation states anymore?

Sarvodaya
If you're going to have a protocol citizenship. I will explain much more about this a bit later. So let me just shut up and not I.

Citizen Cosmos
It's good. It's perfect. It's perfect. Perfect, man. Don't, don't, don't, don't. Shut up. We want you to talk. That's the whole point. So I'm going to start asking some questions, guys. Now it's all my questions. Might be devil's advocate, but yeah, feel free to answer them as you want. And now it's interesting that you say that because, for example, one of our mottos in Citizen Cosmos, we don't believe in nations of digital nations.

Citizen Cosmos
We see blockchains as these digital nations and to me personally token holder is as a citizen now by any means, regardless, and this is the question is going to be this direction. I noticed that throughout your examples and throughout the description of Galacticanetwork and and actually I think I even seen it somewhere either quoted or either on website, maybe in the Twitter from the Galactica, maybe from your institutional setup.

Citizen Cosmos
There was the words used my first question is, do you think that you know, I mean, I mean, one of the reasons that, you know, the cyberspace not not the reason it was created, but one of the reasons, you know, there was like the independence of cyberspace and a lot of the people who come into the space, one of the reason was because, well, some of them believe or most of them or some of them or part of them believe that the current institutions are broken.

Citizen Cosmos
And my question is this Why recreate the same institutional setup? Because that's what it sounds like on chain in Web3 rather than trying and create something new.

Sarvodaya
Can I jump in, please? Yes, sir. So basically, I let me also be a bit of a devils advocate I don't think we have ever said that we will be recreating 1 to 1 an existing institutional setup. So let me if if we have, we're going to change it. I guess so basically put it this way. So in the same way, Defi is the representation on chain of existing financial primitives, even though it's done in a bit of a different way, like, you know, Amm versus an order book, etc., etc., liquidity pool versus versus well, well I guess also order books or whatever other market primitives you have.

Sarvodaya
So in the same way on Galactica, you can have social slash political primitives to exist, on chain And then it's pretty much the same way like Defi has created a de facto market for capital efficiency that can exist on chain and so many different people came up with a lot of different primitives. And now we have basically, you know, Aave curves and Uniswaps of this world in the same way.

Sarvodaya
What we are doing by providing you with a toolbox and based off this toolbox, you can recreate, if you want to, a Chinese autocratic state. If you want to for some reason, or you can recreate a semi direct Swiss democracy or you're going to create something entirely new. So basically the idea here, I guess, is to give a tool box and then for builders to experiment with the actual designs of these institutions.

Sarvodaya
Basically. Also, maybe I should clarify the use of the term institution because it's quite a lot. It's quite a loaded word. So the way I understand it, at least Bitcoin is the first independent monetary institution, etheream and well, Defi in particular are the first independent financial institutions. that exist on chain like well on its way independent basically with Galactica.

Sarvodaya
These are few social political institutions that can exist on chain, or at least not the first, but enabling much more flexibility than traditional DAO setups. I hope this makes sense. So we are not repeating a broken institutional setup. We enable you to have a design space reach and flexible enough for us to experiment with new designs.

Citizen Cosmos
Okay, thank you for that. And next. Oh, gone, gone, gone. Gone are something you want to add to that? Sorry.

Astar
So and I would like to add to that because there are also some really nice aspects from a technical perspective, because the zero knowledge tech we're using and combining them with blockchain really gives us properties that is able to improve the concentration. So I think it's correct that Galactica will not provides that Utopia nation state or something like this, but I think it's also not realistic to get from the current state to utopian in one step.

Astar
And the cool thing about Galactica is that we have this ZK proofs about accuracy data. So and this basically allows us to bring the person data on chain and proof statements with it. I only discussed the statement that you are at least 18 years old and you can do this with your knowledge proofs in a way that keeps the data private from the step, or someone that your proving it to and still allows you to be compliant so we can satisfy some compliance.

Astar
It's also compliance needs to come from nation states that want to regulate cryptocurrencies and when we provide compliance, we do it in a way that is accord and smart contracts and approximate product. So it's already that much cleaner structure that can not just be overruled by some law enforcement or whatever. So also the nation states, obviously tuition's using the system and we provide contracts to have to follow these rules.

Astar
And the User whenever he creates an honest process to disclose something and he has the transparency about what is this clause and what possibilities there are for these institutions.

Citizen Cosmos
Right. Thank you. Yeah, I guess it gives a different perspective. I think in some aspect I would feel I think we can go on just about this topic for the rest of the space for sure. But but let's just for that, you know, let's, let's just go to the more but but like I said, there will be some uncomfortable questions and the next one is also not easy.

Citizen Cosmos
So you guys talk a lot and not a but I think you I mean, you talk a lot I mean like the you on the referring to Galactica in general. You know there is a lot of talk about compliance and privacy. And, you know, I think we have all been in this space long enough to see that, especially by real states, but by own chain states.

Citizen Cosmos
Right. But but by the states and by the state. I'm I'm referring to any institution with a bit of fog. And then I guess, you know, they classify extreme cases very differently. So, for example, you know. Aaron Schwartz Right. And the first marter of of the Internet, so to speak, was classified as an extreme case by certain institutions, although for most of us, he's the creator of the RSS and other protocols which enable us to to to be here today, I guess, at least to some extent.

Citizen Cosmos
And so the question is this will in extreme cases and by extreme cases, I mean, whatever the state might seem as such and again, by state, I'm referring to real nations here, will they be allowed to access the data on their network or will the data be completely private?

Sarvodaya
So I guess I'll give a the idea of how we have designed this. And that's basically among the things we I guess at least I am most proud of. I think this is the most flexible possible, most the most possible set up of all of the data privacy and, well, tech. So basically and then Astar, I guess, again can say exactly how it works.

Sarvodaya
So basically we are libertarians in some way in the sense that the user has to have the choice. So and I will now say one particular phrase and what I'm going to be doing with the whole picture, it will understand what it means. So the cost of your privacy is slippage. So that's probably the best way to explain them.

Sarvodaya
I will try to explain why it is like this. So the way we have designed it is the following. So the KYC process is of chain, as I said. So basically the KYC provider Astar will explain the technical part about this, but the KYC provider basically approves your documents on chain, but the KYC provider can not associated documents with a given with the given blockchain ID.

Sarvodaya
So even if they're hacked, no privacy is leaked. The only thing the hacker will know is that you have an account with Galactica on Galactica, but they would have no transaction history, not your balances, nothing. So now every app, every So the the link between your account and the documents is encrypted, it is split into several parts. So we're very flexible into how many parts and intellectual multisig there might be two out of three or five out of six, one out of one, whatever.

Sarvodaya
that's very important. That happens on the dapp level. The that can set the exact rules for decrypting the link between the transactions you're making with this dapp and your documents. So in other words, a particular fork of uniswap can say that, okay, these institutional tools, let's say all accessible to accredited investors from the jurisdiction will be able to be decrypted with one out of one, you know, only one key required and this key belongs to us or whoever to a regulatory to regulator doesn't really matter.

Sarvodaya
So another dapp which can be in a different jurisdiction instead of okay, in our case such decryption would happen with five out of six keys where one of them belongs to a friend of mine, another one, the regulatory institution, another one to the Dapp, another one to KYC. So it doesn't really matter. You can set them as as flexible as you want.

Sarvodaya
So basically, when a particular user interacts with such liquidity, well, they assume the risk clearly. So in one case, let's say if it is regulated institutional pool, when it's one out of one, presumably it has the biggest amount of liquidity sitting in because the institutions have access to it. So in other words, the slippage will be minimal, but the privacy will be kind of, well, not of such high quality.

Sarvodaya
I would put it this way. In other case, when there is just a very obscure rules for decrypting the association between yourself and your transaction, or your transaction and yourself rather than probably super private, but it has not so much institutional capital inside, thus the slippage is kinda high. So I would see this to be a trade off and potentially with time once we move away from the national regulatory rules towards the global ones, this trade off will evaporate.

Sarvodaya
So you will have all the way away and you will have, you know, some kind of convergence. So I hope this makes sense. One very important thing to realize is that the only thing that can be decrypted is this association between transactions and the account. So no dapp can dox your entire transaction history, only those transactions that you have performed with it and by doxing those transactions, if you're following basic OPSEC rules, there will be no way to associate those transactions with other transactions you have been making with other dapps.

Sarvodaya
So now maybe Astar Can maybe I have screwed something up here in the technical description.

Citizen Cosmos
Before you answer, I really apologize. Very quick question. Super quick follow in what you said. Can technically candidate five out of six or whatever, it doesn't matter lose its keys in a boating accident by mistake?

Sarvodaya
Of course. Yes. But you can socially recovery for those things.

Citizen Cosmos
Okay. Okay. Okay. Sorry. It's all yours. Sorry.

Astar
That's what I would like to add to the answer. This maybe a little bit of background on how the KYC is designed because we designed it, especially in a way that I'm it is not possible for, I don't know, U.S. intuitions to get persons data because the data is not actually on the chain. What you have on Galactica is just a verification hash where arbitrary is used to verify the validity of this.

Astar
Proof about this KYC. So the only way that is there to allow institutions access to personal data is an indirect one. So first the user has to provide the proof, and by providing the user also sees what's happening and what is disclosed. And then they only give an encrypted message about what's provided holds the personal data, so the institution can then only go to the provider.

Astar
The personal data is not onchain.

Citizen Cosmos
Okay, okay, okay. That makes that makes sense. And the next question still regarding the same kind of topic, but I guess we're going to more or less move on a little bit, though, from this. And so there was a lot of conversation even between us now, right? We use a lot like the four of us, I guess we use a lot of words right now ethos, compliance, regulation, national states.

Citizen Cosmos
So to me, you know, I thought, I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to come forward. Right here is an announcement. It's not a secret announcement, but it is I'm an old anarchist. I'm older than I sound. Probably so this is where my questions are coming from. This is what I'm trying to decipher. And and to me, a very important piece of of of the Internet, a very important piece of the cyberspace was.

Citizen Cosmos
It was, I guess, the independence, the independence of cyberspace. You know, the documents. 1993. Right. If I'm not mistaken. And I do sorry if we get it wrong. I really apologize for anyone out there. You know, very short document kind of on an increasingly or unsigned, willingly accepted, which is actually, by the way, a good example of the cyberspace doesn't need the same regulations.

Citizen Cosmos
It does. It needs regulations. You know, it doesn't need any rules. You know, and you mentioned yourself that if this should be the users who decide things. So I guess the question is and I'm sorry for it being very all over the place, so I'm just I'm just trying to to make sense and this is so kind of to dig in more into this same direction.

Citizen Cosmos
And why use all the same terminology? Why use all because you said you guys are given a toolbox and then it's up to the dapp or whatever to to to design whatever they're going to design. So why not remove completely the possibility to build a compliance or a regulated state? Why not give a toolbox to build just something different, something new, something that's, you know.

Sarvodaya
I have four, four components to the answer. So first of all, about calling it differently, for sure. We are open to that. So branding is totally well in the state of flux at the moment. I know that you are not asking about this, but just like in terms of the name.

Citizen Cosmos
I get it.

Sarvodaya
So the second I guess very important thing is that, you know, in terms of like users being in control, well, clearly, you know, anything can be forked. So basically if the set up that we have envisioned is not that that users actually kind of like consider optimal in a sense that there will be somebody else with a different vision, You know, we are for open source, of course.

Sarvodaya
So we have that ethos in mind for us the same way you know, any other protocol could always be forked, so is Galactica. So, so any other vision is possible. The third very important thing that I'm getting to the actual answer well, I'm not sure. Let me push back a bit because I know that anarchy is the mother of order, but I think, you know, in the crypto space we have been empirically proven that it's not exactly the case.

Sarvodaya
I guess so Web3 has been built with the idea of inclusion, but the idea of permissionless innovation, but the ideals of empowering people with ideas, of giving back the privacy to the people. So basically what a lot of good ideals and. Right. So I mean, that's why it's so tempting to jump into this into the space because, you know, just it's so evolutionary.

Sarvodaya
It's so evolutionary as well. So but look at what we see basically, like whatever, 13 years actually 15 years into the into its if it's leading, you know, I'm pretty sure that tree has burned more people than it has empowered through its through its existence. So basically, clearly there have been a lot of first adopters who benefit from the benefited from Bitcoin.

Sarvodaya
And so Bitcoin is pretty much uncontroversial here. Good innovation, I guess. So in that on that. So but once you enable, once you give financial tools into the hands of people who could be good or could be bad people could be responsible or could lack responsibility, and you expose retail mom and pops to these financial weapons in a sense.

Sarvodaya
Well, you get less. You get in any bubbly economy where people think about Web3 as a casino rather than this new and evolutionary tool. So you have a lot of institutional capture within the space. Now you have a lot of people who hate this because they have lost all their money, etc., etc.. So some form of accountability needs to be in the space.

Sarvodaya
That's my thesis. You know, I'm in the space since time I left the university. So feel like for better part of their well, a much better part of the decade so almost ten years and I could see all of all of the things here since then. And so my current perspective is if you want the actual mass adoption, you do need some form of accountability simply because the groups in this space, they do more damage than builders can recover.

Sarvodaya
So that's my first, I guess, point to push back a bit against full anarchy in Web 3 anarchy is cool Once you have educated people in some in some rules of the game, put it this way. So once you have uneducated people lured in buy some gains and some cheap marketing, I'm not so cheap marketing for that matter, then anarchy argument does not apply in my in my opinion, so the other thing is that look, let's be let's be honest, if we want mass adoption, we will need states to collaborate.

Sarvodaya
We will need some kind of collaborative environment. So it's it's very difficult to envision a fully unregulated space where you have full harmony between nation states and .... So basically some sort of collaboration is needed. And so either we as the industry can offer a toolbox which will be sufficiently feature rich and well, flexible enough in a sense, to accommodate such demands by nation states while not giving up our freedom and

Sarvodaya
Our ethos, then that's good, because if we cannot, then what we will get will be CBDC. This will be CBDC or some other like extremely dystopian form of controlling web3 and leaving, you know, some free sectors of it to a few crypto anarchists like myself and yourself, to play with each other. You know, while the majority of the people will be playing in some regulated sandbox, which will take away all of their privacy, all of their wealth, all of their aspirations and whatever.

Sarvodaya
And still they will be happy right as they're as the name suggests. So, okay. And so what I see is that unregulated web3 cannot satisfy those requirements. CBDC is not something we want for the future of innovation. So you got to have a middle ground in one way or another. And so I see zero knowledge cryptography as being these very essential technological primitive that, you know, that can achieve this.

Sarvodaya
But I hope this answers your question. So basically, if my if my point here is not something you if it's totally fine and that's why you can fork the protocol. So if this sounds like more or less like a plan, well, then it sounds like a plan. So clearly everybody has their own take on this so hope this makes sense.

Citizen Cosmos
It makes sense. So, first of all, guys, before I carry on, thank you for, you know, standing up, answering uncomfortable questions. But, you know, it's there is more born in truth born in this. And then if I was asking you, what's your marketing budget and you know, what is your. So thank you for answering the uncomfortable questions just to reflect on what you said.

Citizen Cosmos
And you know, by no means was I to Web 3 space is white and fluffy? No. In fact, in my opinion, personal opinion, at least, again, this is not maybe this isn't Cosmos opinion, but at least my personal opinion as Serj. I would say that the whole space is a fucking shambles. Well, 90% of it is so. So I wasn't saying, Oh, you know, like the space is so good.

Citizen Cosmos
I was. I was more like making sure you know that you guys are not going the same way. This was more of the question from the perspective. And by what I'm hearing, you're saying you're not. Am I totally agree with what you say? You know, decentralization. I honestly one of my biggest I think offpoots of of of turn offs in in people who themselves anarchists or decentralization maximalists are people who say that decentralization should look in a certain way

Citizen Cosmos
Not decentralization should look like decentralization, decides it should look. So I totally agree with what you say. Totally.

Sarvodaya
And they don't see the contradiction, right?

Citizen Cosmos
No, no. Some people really don't like let's destroy the. But maybe the banks. Maybe some people like banks. So, I mean, I don't I hate them. But if somebody does, then then okay, anyway, so let's let's move on. And actually the next question is related to money and to banks. And you have a thank you my team for for for digging some of those things up.

Citizen Cosmos
But you have a section in the economic paper, I believe, or an economics paper, however you want to A16z refers to this tokenology. Now I like the word inner workings and have about universal income. There. And do you want to talk a little bit about it before I ask questions and describe what it is?

Sarvodaya
Yeah, like I do, but it's going to take time.

Citizen Cosmos
And so if you want, I can go ahead. If you want, I can go ahead with the question. And then in your answer you can describe like in short, what it is. So it doesn't go the question, to be honest, for very simple, the question is very simple. There is a talk about scoring system and who is going to decide on the current system.

Citizen Cosmos
That is the question.

Sarvodaya
Okay. Okay. Okay, wonderful. So let me so let me try to jump in and kind of try to explain I mean, I'll try to make it concise. I'm it's like one of my strong qualities, you know, to make.

Citizen Cosmos
Things right that my.

Sarvodaya
Basically to put it this way. So as I told you, the there is political primitives that can be built on on the on Galactica so the simple so and basic like our well the most aspiring part of the protocol design that we have is the so-called cypher of state, which is basically the governance framework of Galactica. And this governance framework, this complexity well, has quite a negative.

Sarvodaya
That's why I'm saying would really take more time to explain the whole thing. But I'm going to be happy to drop all the materials for anybody just to take a look. But overall, the idea is that we have a parliament, we have elections into the parliament, so the citizens decide upon the people who get into the parliament. So within the governance framework, we have different entities, including Academy of Science, basically, which is responsible for funding innovation and public goods within the network.

Sarvodaya
And we have the sovereign, which is basically a sovereign fund which is responsible for distributing investible parts of the inflation. And the most important thing between the parliament and the other entities that basically comprise the Cypher state is that the parliament decides on the issue of inflation. So as we all know, Bitcoin rewards well the miners, the security model of Bitcoin is rewarding the miners basically the with Bitcoin inflation.

Sarvodaya
So the same idea works pretty much in all of the other proof of work systems and proof of stake systems. Clearly. What are the validators idea being? Basically, the inflation of your native coin is the most important crypto economic component of your security model. So in Galactica the idea is that apart from the security, because clearly validators also receive rewards apart from well, so incentivizing innovation.

Sarvodaya
So we want to reward the security of the network, want to make that a part of our tokenomics of course. And also we want to make them the innovation to be a core pillar of what the network rewards. So that part which goes towards innovation that the parliament basically decides upon the distribution of it. So and that's one of the major, major ideas behind Parliament.

Sarvodaya
So and this basically really sounds like something you would have in, for example, in Switzerland or in some other nations. So now let me talk about UBI. So UBI is the way for you as a citizen to receive back the products of the innovation that have happened within the network. In other words, in a nation state or in a crypto economic system like Ethereum, basically you as a holder of the native asset, you are inflated the way your wealth is inflated the way because this constant inflation clearly in Ethereum right now this doesn't work like this because it's deflationary on that.

Sarvodaya
But for example, in a nation state, I'm an Argentine at the moment. As I said, I know a lot about this. It basically works in exactly that way. So inflation dilutes your wealth as a citizen of the system. So in Galactica you do get the dilution because of course of this political inflation. But on the other hand, you do earn the products of that dilution because those money that you lose your wealth, they invest it into public goods and innovation and the yields of that innovation get fed back into your pocket through UBI.

Sarvodaya
So it's like a circular system where you buy instead of, you know, they can in, in the US, for example, I guess a lot of publicly funded universities produce some innovation and then IBM jumps on board and basically takes the teams, takes IP And while people, shareholders of IBM benefit IBM, here is just a hypothetical as you understand so well the people who find funded with their taxes, they kind of dont directly because they get the products that they produces.

Sarvodaya
But you know, so it's redistribution of wealth in Galactica This the products of innovation get fed back to you through UBI. In some sense it's very similar to how Norway monetizes its oil reserves by buying portfolios of stocks diversified global sovereign fund and then the citizens of Norway benefit from that. So that's a similar concept. So how exactly it works, I'm not going to bother you right now.

Sarvodaya
It's all written in the documents, so if you're interested, please go take a look. But that's the idea of UBI Now very important, kind of like additional consideration to UBI is that clearly the A.I. revolution, which is ongoing at the moment and I'm really sorry I'm sorry for this tangent, but I just to say it will take a lot of white collar jobs away from, you know, not so overly qualified people.

Sarvodaya
Well, you know, illustrators, designers, writers, even junior programmers. So probably a lot of them will loose their jobs. So UBI is very essential components. We have, I think, much bigger demand for work. Well, for jobs, basically, then have supply and supply will be reducing, I guess, exponentially as the time goes by, by as we all know, the world population is growing exponentially. So we're going to have some kind of sort of Malthusian problem, but not with hunger, but rather with with the drop with Jobs.

Sarvodaya
That's why UBI is an essential part and the way it's distributed in Galactica is a quadratic. It's quadratic. So basically it benefits a lot to the smaller holders, not so much the larger ones. So basically the small, small holders like disproportionately benifit. So now who decides upon the distribution? So the short answer is the Parliament.

Sarvodaya
So Parliament will be deciding upon the exact funk. I mean, clearly specify a particular function that would be right in the beginning, but then afterwards the function will be subject to voting by the Parliament and keep in mind that Parliament is always subject to a vote of confidence by the citizens are with forced removal of Parliament members and the replacement.

Sarvodaya
So basically, in other words, the Parliament cannot really take a well, kind of like autocracy, autocratic stance on the things some go against the citizens because, well, clearly for the first thing is that citizens will lose faith in the network and the token will plummet. Another very important thing is that they could always be voted out of the parliament.

Sarvodaya
And so in this way we thought this is the most balanced mechanism that can be done in a sense. it can be efficient as a representative democracy. Well, at the same time, we're not autocratic like the representative,democracy where you can not vote out the parliament. So I hope this makes sense.

Citizen Cosmos
Yes, that's perfect. And a quick, quick question before I jump to the next one. You personally and I guess well, again, I'm referring to Galactica, but since I'm you personally seem to be very knowledgeable when it comes to different countries economical system. Did you guys, while you were building Galactica trying to study various systems around the from different countries is that the reason there is so many of different things implemented from different places?

Sarvodaya
Yes. So one very important thing is that, you know, I am mostly so I mean, we the three of us currently on this call are not the those who have the most amount of hours in this research yet. Like, you know, for I mean, it's just a general point of curiosity, I guess for anyone or must be because that's how you know your life in the sense of being shaped by this, by the processes.

Sarvodaya
So I guess anyone who has to have something at a level of withstanding, but yet the person who has been deep into this is not on this call at the moment. But overall, yes, of course, we give it a lot of consideration to how these things function globally.

Citizen Cosmos
I know you also of finance, by the way. I don't know if it's a secret, but the Internet is full of information.

Sarvodaya
So yeah.

Citizen Cosmos
In general, what is currently your take since well, I mean I'm sorry for for stricken currently we talked about shitloads of things that Galactica can offer in terms of the tool box and I'm sorry to strip away the next question, but because it's going to be related to privacy since Galactica is a privacy focused network, whatever terminology I want to use, what is you guys?

Citizen Cosmos
Where did you take the inspiration for privacy architecture from inside of the web three space, if any?

Sarvodaya
I guess I'll say a couple of things and then it's going to be a status question. So there is a paper, it's called Zk kyc, that's exactly how it's called. I think it's 2019 or something. It's outside of published. And, you know, there are very, very, very, very similar system was was described, but just theoretically.

Sarvodaya
So we have put this into practice. So that's one important inspiration. So I mean, just a general idea about building social primitives around Cibil Resistance Network. That's of course D SOC. So it's up to the Vitalik. That's a wonderful, wonderful paper. So a lot of inspiration around the socio economic system. So the governance framework and the economic play of the system has been taken from radical markets.

Sarvodaya
So that's radical markets very interesting thing which I encourage everybody to read. I would really argue every take they have in this book, but the piece they have this takes on stimulates discussion. So it's wonderful. And basically the last one is biologist Network State.

Sarvodaya
Again, it's a very controversial thing, so articulate the points from there, but that's the stuff that startup nations and the whole concept of, you know, if you can if you can build a company by doing an ICO y community, doing initial whatever offering. And so that's that's, that's another dividing population. Now from the technological design, again, I'm sorry for the tensions.

Sarvodaya
They start confused of what kind of frameworks we're using, what kind of libraries, etc..

Astar
Yeah. And so regarding frameworks, obviously using our classic building, if you it's a model of it. And then we have for the knowledge for using the second framework and for a lot of the concepts behind ZK KYC and the combination of policy compliance. So is this, this paper ZK KYC component which is regret. And for me personally, that's also a lot of inspiration from other important projects being ideas so that the kinds of Tornado cash ... tech spent on those projects.

Citizen Cosmos
Thanks, guys. I was genuinely curious because, you know, the privacy topic theme in not just in Web3, but in everyday people's lives. Okay, for some people and I'm very envious of you, whoever you are, it's not a theme for me. It is. And I'm very into web3 space. It's a big theme. So I was very curious. Since you guys are in that, what do you consider to be..?

Citizen Cosmos
Maybe not good. I'm. I'm kind of putting words in your mouth here, but. But at least what what kind of inspired you to build your protocol and which technologies and guys, I have to say, I didn't realize it's it's almost an hour passed but a good conversation. But I'm I'm you know I'm glad to be honest There's a lot of questions and I would love to can ask and ask but but but I must say one thing I'm glad is it's more and more and protocols on networks.

Citizen Cosmos
Again, I'm I'm very vague on terminology because different people want to use different terminology. Well, many of them growing balls and seeing that, hey, we are nations. You know, we why not? You know, and, you know, you've seen, I think, crazy stuff there in the past couple of years happened in the past year, which was nothing to to the comparison of what, of course, sort of the home automation was ten years ago.

Citizen Cosmos
Completely different. Um, but yeah, it's really cool. And Sarvodaya, you also mentioned you had some announcements towards the end. Um, but of course I know I didn't ask you so many things. So guys, do you want to add, do you want anything public, anything in particular topics that you wanted to discuss that I didn't talk about that. Well, I kind of stuck to one topic.

Citizen Cosmos
Sorry about that.

Sarvodaya
Not only depreciate it, but I mean, it's like, again, it's very good that you have a reminder that we actually have an announcement because the discussion was so good that I even, like, forgot. I guess so.

Citizen Cosmos
Me too. I had thought I was written down. I'm going. I'm not going to lie down. I forgot about it.

Sarvodaya
So, yeah, basically, I guess there are a lot of things to discuss. We could maybe like have a follow up conversation somewhere down the road and we're going to be happy it because going on and maybe, well, discuss those topics that we haven't discussed so far and really thank you for questions. This I think has been one of the if not the best podcast we've been a part of.

Sarvodaya
And basically yeah, but the announcement so are announcing the site for a state campaign. So basically the Cypress State campaign is the way for the first cohort of users to gain citizenships into the Cypress State. So as I said, the citizenships are a very important component of galactic network. Basically citizenship. Technically it's a white list of people who can do things on the network, such as getting validation nodes being part of the governance and or receives.

Sarvodaya
UPI So basically it is a sort of a retroactive airdrop, but it's reputation based. So basically, in other words, it's a bit of a more cautious design of of rewarding social contributions than the regular L1 airdrops that we are seeing. So this campaign is basically your chance to get into the into the set of of of of citizens.

Sarvodaya
It's this type of status column that's basically the website how to what do you have to get to get there there will be a lot of puzzles so some of those puzzles I think will be a quite sophisticated for people with a lot of computer science and cryptography aspirations. There will be tasks, there will be a lot of community work.

Sarvodaya
I mean, community collaboration, I should say, a lot of insights, a lot of alpha, all of those things. So the cyberstate dot com, we haven't done all of that yet. Does it take because they were announcing it and it's going to get big I guess. Of course they hope so in the coming months.

Citizen Cosmos
So I like it's the sci fi state of sight for states.

Sarvodaya
These type of things. I think it's far too expensive.

Citizen Cosmos
Okay but that is this sci fi state has come and we've got guys, by the way, whoever and I know people who are listening life. Well, you are listening life. So here it is. But I'm guessing you must have listened to this is in the recording. So if you are, then you probably can see the whole well, at least if it's not today, it would during the recording.

Citizen Cosmos
You can probably see transcription and links. And so if you can see the links then please go on on the website and check it out. Sounds very, very cool and yeah, but feel sorry. I was just kind of still in the microphone there for a second. Yes.

Dan
Yes. So I posted its first foray into like that game in subcommittee of it. So we have we, if you join up this site, what you need to do is just join up with the discord and then start basically just verify yourself and then start doing tasks. And basically the more and more task you do and the more ranks you gain the the more opportunities you get as like an early adopter cluster network.

Dan
So at some ranks you'll just get a few on maybe a what we call social identity for your participation, various various, various events, that kind of thing, and levels. You're actually going to get access to exclusive access to channels, that kind of thing. And you will actually become one of the primary like ambassadors of the the network. This is also going to offer you the opportunity to become that to gain early access to galactica network citizenship, which is hugely it's a there are some very big cities like, for instance, the very first wave of galactica networks citizenships this year.

Dan
And so you really want to be early as you can with citizenship waves that you can be. And this is your best chance if you take part in the campaign. It's just really good opportunity to get to be really ...

Citizen Cosmos
Yeah, guys, if you are for some reason not seen links or whatever they've great suggestion, just follow the guys this curve and from there I'm sure you will find all the links in case you are not. I don't know. Maybe you listen to part of it somewhere or something like this on Twitter or whatever. And then of course, right now there are still no description, but it will be ready for the recording.

Citizen Cosmos
Okay, guys, again, thank you. But by the way, while I'm saying the kind of rest of my part, like I said, if anyone has any questions, just raise your hand. Ask a I. We we will have. I hope you guys still have a few minutes to answer questions. And so, please, if you are too shy, like I said, drop it in my DM on Twitter.

Citizen Cosmos
It could be anonymous. So I would not say your name if you don't want me to or unique or whatever. So let me just quickly check in case somebody did follow this up. No, I'm not seeing anything. And just quickly checking the spam. No. So, guys, we will definitely I would love to follow up to this this conversation or and so I know there is somebody.

Citizen Cosmos
Wait. Okay. Okay. We have so hey, you are on Red Hook if you want to try. Hey, you want to try and ask? Yeah.

Redhu
Yeah. So like, like questions like, you must have discussed anything between you guys. Like whenever governments have their try to take advantage of that. Arent you gining them tooks to make our lives less private

Dan
No that's one of the that's one of the primary aspects of galactica network is one of our primary goals is to maintain citizen privacy all times. That is possible.

Astar
So like.

Dan
Like so.

Redhu
So like there is element it like real life element. So we are to prove our idea. And then I don't know how we all do that, but I want the government to intervene in that. Those things.

Dan
Okay, I see what you mean. So your concern is regarding the like the offchain stuff. So basically the idea is that you we utilize both. We use ZK proofs in order to keep your information private. And then when you actually go to do your KYC, they use an offchain provider to provide the KYC, but you basically have your your, your key, your private keys and a hash which splits your identity essentially so the KYC provider that you're sending your details to never actually can identify your address onchain.

Dan
So all they all they know is that your address exists and that it's a found and it's it's yours. So ZK proofs is really really powerful like that in actually protecting the privacy of this transaction which allows us to have this link off chain and often on chain without affecting your privacy. The only time information is sent offchain is if through centralized governance, but there is sort of a regulatory claim, I guess like rectal only.

Redhu
Thank you. So I have a. Lot of questions, but I let them down for now. But I'll ask you in on your discord.

Citizen Cosmos
Thank you for the question. Thanks for the call.

Dan
To read to. And we also actually have a we have a twitter spaces they have a lot to issues that currently I can probably ask you to give me a little bit about what it is and how we are supposed to do it based on Friday as well. So I have an opportunity to actually talk to us in any way you wish and asking the questions you want.

RedHu
One more thing, like I like the idea of cosmos based like this Cosmos chain of building new those consensus.

Dan
We are indeed cosmos based. We'll build over the Cosmos SDK for several reasons, some of which are the IBC, which is incredibly useful as well as that more so we can build compatible.

Citizen Cosmos
Astar want to add anything or we can.

Astar
Yeah, basically because it's this great system where we get all the tools we need to build the blockchain. So using also the tenderment consensus modules to add our own implementation features for example reputation and ... transactions .... blockchain. And of course also IBC is a really strong point because it allows the features that we add the ZK combination of privacy and compliance to synergize with all the other projects happening on the Cosmos system.

Citizen Cosmos
Okay, thank you for the question and thank you for the answers, guys. Anyone else want to ask another question? Well, well, we still well, the guys. Well, I'm here all the time, so you can ask any questions anytime. But if anybody else has another question, just to put a request to raise your hand, if not, while I'm talking, you can still do it if it's the very last second.

Citizen Cosmos
Of course, some of the guys fell off or something like that. But then I will try to answer, of course, as well. But if they if you do not want to ask now, like they've already mentioned, they have their own Twitter space, also there is a discord channel. So I encourage everybody in the name of education to study as many protocols as possible.

Citizen Cosmos
For sure. So definitely follow. And if you don't have the question ready now, follow the guys Twitter space or discord and feel free to ask the question there if it's more comfortable. I writing sometimes I totally understand that as well. And okay guys, I guess let's have a I really this was a very cool conversation in my opinion.

Citizen Cosmos
I enjoy when people answer and especially founders and things answer the questions, you know, not, not afraid. Sorry, not sorry, not afraid to answer the questions. So thank you again for that, guys. Thank you for answering uncomfortable questions. I hope it helped. It will not help, but it will. Whoever is listening to this to understand you a little bit better, the protocol better, and make up their own mind of what they want to do with it.

Citizen Cosmos
So and yeah, definitely, hopefully there will be a follow up. So again, thank you to the Galactica team and thank you everybody. Thank you. Listen to us and have a great Friday, guys.

Sarvodaya
Thank you, brother. Same for you. It's a great end of friday. The meat of it, whatever, whatever.

Citizen Cosmos
You're almost almost didn't understand Midland's meatloaf.

Dan
Yeah. No, we really appreciate it. And like I said, guys, go on the discord. The discord is highly valuable right now, just not just for education, but also so you can get involved inside your networks.

Astar
Yes. Yeah. Yes. Thank you for the opportunity. And as development, we learn a lot from these interactions with the community and and and especially grateful for the challenging questions because that's why from what we learn new things and then counsel improve our concepts.

Citizen Cosmos
Thanks guys and thanks everybody who listens and thanks much for the questions.

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